switching to amsoil?

[sleddheadd]

Switching to amsoil? how does the average garage mechanic go about doing a complete system flush and switch his allison tranny to amsoil? i have 92,000 mile on truck and would like to change the fluids. do i need to find a shop somewhere or is it possible at home? thanks!

[Herb]

Switching to amsoil? how does the average garage mechanic go about doing a complete system flush and switch his allison tranny to amsoil? i have 92,000 mile on truck and would like to change the fluids. do i need to find a shop somewhere or is it possible at home? thanks!

If you ask your garage I'm sure they will do the change for you. Though I do all my fluids myself and its not that hard of a job. First for the engine, I would recommend doing the engine flush, you will need (2) bottles of the (AEFCN) Amsoil Engine Flush and a new oil filter, it can be a cheap oil filter because it will be discarded after the engine flush is done.

1. take off the old oil filter and put on a new one.
2. add 2 bottles of engine flush to the crankcase and let the engine idle for 15-20 min. After this oil will be very hot, so be careful.
3. drain oil from pan and remove oil filter.
4. install new Amsoil (EaO-52) oil filter and Amsoil diesel oil of your choice.

http://www.amsoil.com/StoreFront/aef.aspx (Engine Flush)

For the Transmission: You can have your garage do a complete ATF flush, though I have always dropped the pan and change the trans filter and replaced with Amsoil ATF.. I have always changed my trans filter once a year and topped off. Though a complete change will let you have the full benifit of using Amsoil ATF fluid.

[johns4dor]

sleaddheadd, When making the initial switch to Amsoil, it is best to do a complete changeover. GM recommends Dexron but Allison tranny specialists recommend the Allison Transynd. The Amsoil replacement is Torque-Drive ATF. If you had all of the equipment and know-how you could do it yourself. I normally recommend that my customers find a good, reliable trans shop to do the complete changeover, preferrably one that specializes in their particular transmission. Not all shops like to do complete changeovers, so you may need to make a few phone calls. Some will do it manually, others will want to use the pump. I have an Allison specialist near me in Upland, Ca., but I don't know where you are located. Also, when doing the Allison the first time you should change both filters, internal and external. The external spin-on can be purchased through Amsoil or almost any good parts house or dealer, but I have only been able to find the internal filter at Allison, Chevy, or GMC dealers. It will be worth doing. :)

[horsehaulin]

Directly from a Allison transmission shop. Do not replace internal filter on 1000 series. Internal filters are only to be serviced at times of overhaul or pan replacement. Spin - on filters are the only filters to be replaced on the 1000 series. Save yourself some time and hassle and just drain the pan and refill with Amsoil and replace the spin - on at the same time.

Tony

[johns4dor]

The problem with only draining and changing the fluid in the pan is that you now have 50% Dexron Petroleum ATF and 50% Amsoil Synthetic. This will not perform as well, run as cool, nor last as long as 100% (or as close as you can get it) Amsoil Synthetic. The Amsoil can last up to 100,000 miles or even longer, but not when mixed 50/50. The 2 Alllison rebuild shops that I have dealt with in my area both recommend changing the internal filter when doing the complete ATF changeover, especially considering the length of time that the fluid will be in the transmission. Besides, it is only a $20 part, and worth it for the peace of mind while the pan is off. Many of my customers are also putting the Mag-Hytec pan on the trans at the same time to increase the volume of ATF by about 4 quarts.

John

[horsehaulin]

I can agree that it is a cheap part to replace for the peace of mind, but it is only a screen filter, not like the paper ones in other transmissions. There are also several methods to changing the fluid 100%. I wont make reference to the ones offered at other sites, but several have come up sith ways to change the fluid totally to Amsoil.

Tony

[johns4dor]

You are correct, there are several different ways to accomplish a complete change of ATF. If you do decide to only change the fluid in the pan though, it will take at least 3 or 4 changes to get the fluid to the point that it is mostly Synthetic. Those changes should be done at the factory recommended change intervals. Personally, I would recommend 4 changes, and then possibly do an Oil Analysis Test on the fluid before I began the long duration changes. Much quicker and easier to make a complete change the first time.

John

[horsehaulin]

I agree. Would be nice if Allison would make a few fittings for hoses so one could do this by themselves. But you are right about changing the fluid all at one time. I dont believe you can ever really get 100% Amsoil when only changing the pan fluid. There will always be some petroleum contamination unless a full change is done as you stated. That was not the point I was after though.

I was more going after those that wanted to change to Amsoil Torque Drive and not change a internal filter that did not need changed.

Tony

[johns4dor]

Tony, I understand where you are coming from, but as you can see, even the Allison rebuild shops aren't in total agreement. Actually none of the transmissions are easy to change out completely, and in fact you almost always end up with at least 1/2 to 1-1/2 quarts you can't get out, but that is pretty close. You practically need to start with clean new parts to get 100%. Yes, it would be nice if the factories would build them so it was easy to do. Instead, many of the factories are building them sealed so you can't even add fluid. The others are using pumps to service the fluid completely each time and some are even removing the filters so they don't need to remove the pan for service.

And then you hope the shop doesn't short cut you too. A cousin/customer just had one of the biggest name diesel performance and turbo suppliers out here put in a new Torque Converter in his 2007 Dodge. While doing that they were supposed to install a Mag-Hytec pan and change the fluid to Amsoil. When he picked it up, they gave him the remaining ATF. They were 4 quarts short of a complete change. They obviously didn't blow out the cooler and lines, a simple enough procedure. I spoke with the shop, and they said they weren't equipped to do that. Huh? They could pull the trans, change the Converter, replace the trans and install the new pan, but couldn't blow out the lines and cooler.

Anyway, it sounds like you have been enjoying your truck.
John

[rstruff]

I can agree that it is a cheap part to replace for the peace of mind, but it is only a screen filter, not like the paper ones in other transmissions. There are also several methods to changing the fluid 100%. I wont make reference to the ones offered at other sites, but several have come up sith ways to change the fluid totally to Amsoil.

Tony

So help me out here, you guys are saying that there is a filter on the inside of my trans also, I have a 05 D-max with the All. trans. I only thought there was the spin on filter. If that is the case, that screen filter and the Pan gasket what are the part #s how much cost to replace both of them. That screen filter, is there a trick to taking it out? I have never pulled the pan on my Trans yet, I have been running the ATF seance 16,000 with two changes and now I have 125,000 miles now. Any info on this would help me out.

rstruff:confused:

[johns4dor]

rstruff,
I am a little confused by your next to last sentence. Please clarify it for me so I can give you a more educated answer: 1. You say you have never pulled the pan. 2. What ATF have you been running since 16,000 miles? 3. Have you changed the fluid two times, if so, how? or have you changed the spin-on filter two times? 4. You have 125,000 miles on the truck, transmission, or fluid.
In answer to the first part of your question, yes, there is a screen filter inside the pan just like other transmissions have, cost is usually $20 to $30, but I don't know the part number. They used to be available only from the Chev/GMC or Allison dealers but are now available in the aftermarket. Wix has a part number for it, but last I checked it wasn't in production yet. I am not sure about the gasket, but I think they are a reusable gasket like most of the manufacturers are installing today, if not, they usually come with the filter as a kit, at least from the aftermarket suppliers. Simple to replace, pull the pan and you will see it. Because of the spin-on filter, they are not normally replaced unless there is a problem, though I personally have them replaced when I change out the fluid from Dexron to Amsoil.
Get back to me with your answers to my questions.
John

[rstruff]

johns4dor,

I run the Amsoil ATF, I have changed it twice seance I have converted over to the Amsoil, I have also changed the spin off filter twice. Both times were done by drain plug only, no pan pull. The next one I do will be a pan pull, just because I would like to see what has collected inside of the pan.

rstruff

[johns4dor]

rstruff,

One of the downsides to not making a complete change of fluid when converting from the Dexron to Amsoil is that you must continue to do regular changes. By only changing the fluid in the pan the first time, you end up with 1/3 to 1/2 new Amsoil synthetic, mixed, or contaminated, with 1/2 to 2/3 Dexron petroleum. Gradually, with each change after that, you increase the percentage of Amsoil. The problem with that is you don't get all of the benefits and protection of having 100% Amsoil for the many 1,000's of miles until then. Even after 3 changes, you may still not be there. If you made the first change at 16,000 you probably won't find much of anything in the pan, unless you have had some kind of a problem. You get the same amount of fluid change via the drain plug as by pulling the pan. The full system capacity is about 13 Qts though. If you install the Mag-Hytec pan you increase it by 4 Qts to 17. My 7.3 Ford starts with 17 and is now 24 Qts with the Mag-Hytec. It is a much larger pan the the Allison.
Have you ever done an analysis of the fluid to check the condition?

John

[Analyst]

Guys - what he's asking for is a procedure to do a complete fluid change himself.
First, I agree that it's easier to take it to a dealer and have it done with a fluid exchange machine. That requires a full 3 qts over the Allison 1000 "total fill volume" for your year truck, in order to clear out the lines and tank of the fluid exchange machine, and produces an approximate 98% fluid exchange. The dealer charged me a negotiated $130 in 2006, and I provided the spin-on filter and the tranny fluid.
BTW, neither the GM dealer, nor the GM/Volvo/etc. semi-truck dealer down the road carried a TES-295 fluid - they always put in their "standard" fluid and "don't recommend a synthetic fluid": total incompetence and apathy that doesn't meet either Allison's recommendations or their commercial transmission warranty requirements.

Second, here's a link to AMSOIL's TSB on changing transmission fluid (http://www.amsoil.com/dealer/techservicesbulletin/ATF_and_Filter_Change_Procedures.pdf), which includes general instructions on how to do a full fluid exchange. The second part of the procedure uses the transmission to pump out the old fluid while the engine is running, though I'd prefer to disconnect only the tranny-cooler line that returns fluid to the tranny, in order to pump clean fluid through the cooler. In general, it produces results similar to a fluid exchange machine, except that you won't hit a 98% fluid exchange. If I had to guess, I'd say more like a 90-95% exchange if it's done well - which isn't bad at all, and way better than just dropping the pan. Do that again after 50k miles, and you should be in good shape. But don't forget to change your spin-on filter periodically.

With AMSOIL Torque-Drive (product code ATD), I like to change the spin-on every 20k miles: some recommend more frequent changes, but the stellar condition of the AMSOIL fluid indicates to me that there's probably not much particle volume being trapped in the filter. An alternate approach that is great for heavy-duty applications is to replace the spin-on with an AMSOIL Dual Remote filter system: much finer filtration, increased fluid capacity, and increased fluid life that should probably double or triple the tranny life by reducing wear rates over 50%.

When to change Allison fluid the first time (over to AMSOIL): 10k miles. The tranny is broken in, and the factory fluid may already be out of spec, depending on vehicle use.

A final caution: beware judging Allison tranny fluid only on the basis of color/smell. You cannot do that with a non-TES-295 spec fluid, because the VIM's (Viscosity Index Modifiers) are broken down VERY aggressively by the high shear stresses in the Allison design: the result is a tranny fluid that looks and smells great, but can be completely SHOT (way out of spec on viscosity) in just 10k miles. That's why I do not recommend AMSOIL's standard ATF - as good as it is - for Allison's trannys that require a TES-295 fluid (which contain no VIM's, meaning there is nothing critical for shear stresses to permanently damage). So use only AMSOIL Torque-Drive (ATD), or the more expensive Castrol Transynd (if you can find it).

Allison designs their tranny so well that it will generally hold up for more than 100k miles with a compromised fluid, in non-commercial applications. For commercial applications the dealership won't honor the warranty anyway. What Allison owners don't know... will bite them in the wallet.

[johns4dor]

Hi Brian/Analyst,

Lots of good information in your post. However, while Sleddhead was looking for a way to make a complete change of fluid in his post back in November, my most recent posts were in reply to "rstruff" who was not looking for a way to change the fluid himself.

You were correct in your statement that a change with an exchange pump will normally require a few extra quarts of fluid. That is also the case when you use the engine running method, but not everybody is capable of doing it that way(also good to have 2 guys). In my search for shops to do fluid changes for my Amsoil customers here in my local area, I have found that only about 1 in 5, or fewer, trans shops even own a pump, and some of them that do don't use them anymore, except when they have to. The new car dealers and some full repair shops use them though. I have an Allison specialist nearby, Precision Allison Transmissions in Upland, CA., that will do a change including the internal and spin-on filters for $120 with your fluid, an excellent price.

Chev/GMC Allison 1000 trucks are delivered with Dexron and that is the only fluid the dealers will recommend. Most of them don't even know what TranSynd is. Most of the local Allison repair shops will put in either Dexron or TranSynd, whichever the customer wants. While the Amsoil Universal ATF is more than capable of handling the stress of the 1000, the Torque-Drive is the TranSynd/TES-295 replacement. Since Allison refused to release the specs for the TES-295, Amsoil broke it down and reversed engineered it in order to create the Torque-Drive as a direct and equivalent replacement fluid for the TranSynd.

The Dual-Remote may be a possibility to put a finer filter on the transmission, however, it may be too restrictive for the system. That is something that must be taken into account when placing auxilliary filters on automotic transmissions. There is a toilet-paper filter on the market that is placed on the return line with a "by-pass valve" so that it only filters a portion of the fluid. Most transmissions create very little junk unless they have a problem. You can see that when you do the break-in fluid change. When you drop the pan the first time, most transmissions will have just a small amount of junk in the pan which has usually been stopped by the 40 or so micron screen filter. One of the dirtiest exceptions over the years has been the Chrysler Torque-flite which is usually full of junk the first time, but rarely after that. It is still a good idea to put an auxilliary filter on the trans though, that way you stop everything before it gets back to the pan and should no longer need to change the internal screen. The majority of the aftermarket filter systems are about 20 microns to ensure enough flow.

Most of the trans shops I deal with tell me that, like a gas engine, most automatic transmissions are broken in within a 1,000 miles and can be changed anytime after that.
The same is true with manual transmissions and differentials today.

I really appreciated your post, very informative and educational. You brought up several outstanding points and added some really excellent information about the Allison 1000 transmission and the its fluids.

John

[rstruff]

OK guys, let me step back and ask this one.
Amsoil says to use ATF on the Product Guide, and to use the Torque-Drive also, I have a auto trans, so I went with the ATF, it seem to be a hands down with you guys to run the Torque-drive. which is it? and why? As far as the the complete change, it will be done on this change. Keep in mind that this is my only driver, all those miles are not with my trailer, I will say though, that 90% of the driving of the truck is done on the Freeways, no lie, I live in BFE and I drive along ways just to find a beer.
So in short, Torque-Drive or ATF? I will pull the pan this time, and I will drain from the output side of the tran cooler and will replace the spinner.
Back to the 1st ? I asked, any part #'s out there that anybody nows of?

rstruff out

[Herb]

The AMSOIL Torque-Drive™ is recommended as a direct replacement for TranSynd® Synthetic ATF. Though the universal ATF can be used, the Torque Dirve is the direct replacement and meets the specifications more for the Allision. The spin on Part # for filter is a WIX 57701.

[johns4dor]

rstruff,

I did some checking for you. Allison and Chevrolet use the same part numbers, which tells us that they both sell the Allison part. Problem is, they have 3 part numbers, 2 for the shallow pans and 1 for the deep pan, which is also the one you would use if you switched to a Mag-Hytec pan. The allison parts man told me I needed the trans serial number because there is a difference in the pick-up tube size, but Chevrolet parts said the shallow pan number for a 2005 is 29537965. The other shallow pan number is 29537966. You should probably verify which one you need. The number for the deep pan is 29537989. These are the numbers that Allison gave me, and I didn't go any further than that to verify them. Chevrolet retails the filter for about $41 and Allison sells it for $22.50. As I said before, I know they are available in the aftermarket, although not from Wix yet. My local parts store sells them, and if I recall correctly they quoted me $27. You may be able to find them on the net. The gasket is a reusable, but Mag-Hytec uses an o-ring. If you want to increase your capacity you can do it with either the Allison deep pan or the Mag-Hytec, both are about 4 Qts more fluid, unless you already have the deep pan. 4x4 may have as that is how Ford does it.

Amsoil Tech told me that Torque-Drive is a stronger fluid than the ATF. It is a replacement for the TranSynd/TES-295 Allison fluid, Dexron III, and Mercon. They said one of the differences is that it is a single viscosity fluid, while ATF is a multi-viscosity. I have ATF in my Ford, but that is because Torque-Drive was not available when I did the change-over to Amsoil. If I was doing it today, I would use the Torque-Drive.

Good Luck,
John

[rstruff]

rstruff,

I did some checking for you. Allison and Chevrolet use the same part numbers, which tells us that they both sell the Allison part. Problem is, they have 3 part numbers, 2 for the shallow pans and 1 for the deep pan, which is also the one you would use if you switched to a Mag-Hytec pan. The allison parts man told me I needed the trans serial number because there is a difference in the pick-up tube size, but Chevrolet parts said the shallow pan number for a 2005 is 29537965. The other shallow pan number is 29537966. You should probably verify which one you need. The number for the deep pan is 29537989. These are the numbers that Allison gave me, and I didn't go any further than that to verify them. Chevrolet retails the filter for about $41 and Allison sells it for $22.50. As I said before, I know they are available in the aftermarket, although not from Wix yet. My local parts store sells them, and if I recall correctly they quoted me $27. You may be able to find them on the net. The gasket is a reusable, but Mag-Hytec uses an o-ring. If you want to increase your capacity you can do it with either the Allison deep pan or the Mag-Hytec, both are about 4 Qts more fluid, unless you already have the deep pan. 4x4 may have as that is how Ford does it.

Amsoil Tech told me that Torque-Drive is a stronger fluid than the ATF. It is a replacement for the TranSynd/TES-295 Allison fluid, Dexron III, and Mercon. They said one of the differences is that it is a single viscosity fluid, while ATF is a multi-viscosity. I have ATF in my Ford, but that is because Torque-Drive was not available when I did the change-over to Amsoil. If I was doing it today, I would use the Torque-Drive.

Good Luck,
John

Perfect John, thanks for the info I'll run the Torque-Drive, don't know if I have the funds to get a bigger pan as of now, but it will be done.

[horsehaulin]

As I had stated before, internal filters are not to be touched! This is per Allison.

http://www.allisontransmission.com/service/faq/index.jsp?CategoryID=11#105

"Q. Filters - How many filters are there and when do they need to be changed?
A. The Allison 1000 Series™ uses two filters to maintain cleanliness of the Automatic Transmission Fluid (ATF). There is a 'spin-on' filter that is externally accessible and is intended to be changed at each ATF change (see owners manual for recommended change intervals). Current P/N for this filter is 29539579. Because this is a relatively 'high pressure' spin-on filter, it is important to tighten the filter one full turn after the gasket contacts the transmission case. Also, there is a removable magnet between the filter and the transmission housing; care needs to be taken that the magnet doesn't get 'thrown away' with the old filter if it happens to stick to the old filter. Beginning with MY03, GM Truck is recommending that the spin-on filter (filter only; not transmission fluid) initially be changed at 7,500 miles. Following that, the filter and fluid should be changed at the recommended intervals.

The other filter is inside the transmission oil pan, and is intended to be changed only in the event of an overhaul."

I feel like I am beating a dead horse, but I dont want anyone stripping the threads of the alluminum case like I had done on a previous truck. Stay away from the internal filter unless you are installing a new pan or overhauling the entire transmission. Lets work smarter not harder fella's.

Here is another link that will be helpful.

http://www.allisontransmission.com/service/faq/index.jsp?CategoryID=11